Ammunition Limits?

[Cadet Commissar]

Any idea how ammo limits could be overseen then?

[Lex]

Probably have everyone fill up their magazines at the event prior to any action, then all leftover ammunition to be dealt with accordingly. As to how it's dealt with...anyone else more conversant with LRP games want to help me out here?

[Cadet Commissar]

Personally I would have said a bag measured to the apropiate size, and no other ammo can be taken into play area, but TBH, 2000 is quite a lot IMHO, If I am being really trigger happy I make 3000, but mid capping and singe shot/bursts will extend it.

[zefer]

i have gone for magazine limits
because as guadrsmen our lasgun powerpacks recharge when we leave them out in the sun or in a hurry when we toss them in a fire? meaning that so long as were carefull with our mags we don't really have limits as finite as a weapon that carrys hard ammo (ie bullets)

[mihangelion]

yeh i agree that the lasguns pretty much have infinate ammo but not for skirmishes. if we had a weekend event then yeh i would agree to allowing infinate ammo over the weekend as long as the mags are "charging" as a downtime thing. maybe this could be fun if we used a night ambush game for example


obviously not all weapons are like this. Our (tau) rifles and rechargable BUT they contain a slug "mag" that has a limited amount of rounds so this will have to be taken into account.

[Manius]

The ammo limits will be dealt with in the same way as described by the Cadet Commissar. A bag of ammo will be issued to each player dependant on role / skill levels.

I was thinking that for a full weekend the initial allocation for a regular rifleman would be - 500 rounds.

I'm working on the fact that Mid-Caps usually come in boxes of 5 and hold approx 80 rounds (Kings Arms VN Midcaps). This means you can fill your five mags up and have some "emergency" ammo in a speed loader.

After that its a matter of supply drops, siezing ammo dumps, looting of the dead etc.

Remember the events will run from Friday night through to Sunday afternoon.

Ammo will be intentionally tight.

[Cadet Commissar]

Sorry, I meant an empty bag, that way PPL can use whatever brand & weight ammo they choose.

I'v been to themed WW2 events that "Isued" ammo, and quite a few players wernt happy with the brand being used.

I think it is a good system tho, you turn up with kit, and get issued ammo & 'nades/smoke's etc, and fill your pouches. I think it adds to the RP factor, Especially if you get a box of bandoliers per section(one bandolier pouch holding about 75-100 BB's in small zip seal food bags.)

While Im on about it, how many would object to .20g Exel or Blaster BB's being issued to "Riflemen" with snipers/ Sharp shooters being lissued .36g but in less quantity?

[Manius]

Now, if I could get the regulation issue OG bandoliers in the volume required (say 100) I'd do it exactly as that.

I don't believe people would have issue with the brand of BB's being issued at our events as they'll always be Excel - obviously, snipers will get different weights and perhaps a more dedicated brand.

BB's will be issued in small re-sealable bags for ease of use (have used them before, they hold approx 100 each).

[Cadet Commissar]

Sabre Sales, and a few mates in the cadet forces, and Ill see what I can do for you if you like. Alternative is to mate some in a cotton, Ill have a few words on that as well.

Watch this space.

[kren]

At fifth season this is the system I use....

a couple of weeks before the event, I start bagging stuff up while on the phone to people or watching tv or whatever... use a loading rod with a piece of masking tape at the 51 BB mark (just to err on the side of caution). Sets of 50 bbs are put into the resealable bags, and then all of the bags are dropped into a box.

During booking, we look at the skills list of the players to work out how many bags we need... anyone with pistol only gets one bag (so for most thats one mag in the gun and 2-3 reloads). SMG users get about 6 - one loaded and 5 spare, and those with AeGs have 10 bags.

Ammo was always very tightly restricted to give a sense of immediacy and caution to the events - it stops spray'n'pray right away, it gets people into the mindset that combat should not be the first answer which encourages the willingness to RP, and it provides a very simple and effective method to reward players or drive a plot. All you have to do to get players to head for point A on the map is label it "ammo dump" and they're primed and ready.

We also have the opportunity to allow "looting" of dead enemies by giving them a couple of bags of ammo... they get one with about 10 rounds, one with 25 and one with 50. Depending on how quickly they got taken down, the monster presents a looting player with one of the three, representing unspent ammo.... this also avoids the tendency for players to try and loot phys-rep rifles to gather ammo - something we always frown on.

It's also very gratifying after a big attack to see the players in a bunker consolidating ammo, reloading and counting mags, getting a feeling of quiet desperation set in at plummeting supply levels... seeing them rethinking plans and changing tactics to account for it.

While limited ammo was never a part of the 40k system or mythos - and indeed might be seen as counter to some of the philosophy (I can't imagine anyone with a heavy bolter firing in "short controlled bursts" when "excessive long streams of incandescent death in service of the Ever Living Emperor" will do the job), I strongly support this in terms of running a rational LRP system that has at it's heart Space marines played by overweight and unfit chartered accountants from Surrey looking for a bit of fun at the weekend. It's not real, we don't have a hollywood budget and you try to look for every way possible to help with the immersion into the world and to avoid the distractions that RL throws in your way.

I agree with the poster worried about quality though - I've always Used Excel standard weight BBs as they seem to be the accepted baseline... I went to one event (Shadow Wars) where they insisted on using these new-brand black biodegradeables and they caused all sorts of problems. I had several jams / stoppages and I know that at least 3 AEGs lost gearboxes over the course of a 24 hour event which is pretty poor. I'd certainly not put any of that ammo anywhere near my guns in the future. Keep the quality high though, and there is no OOC reason not to do this.

So yes, restrict ammo harshly. Easier to give too little and improve it, than to take it away.

And there is nothing, NOTHING like the look on the players face when they find the ammo facility and get a bag of ammo supplied, each, and can just go rock'n'roll on something finally.

[Cadet Commissar]

admin said:

be issued in small re-sealable bags for ease of use (have used them before, they hold approx 100 each).

I cant seem to get hold of my contacts in the cadet forcers, but I do know quite a few surplus stores have them bandoliers stock.

If the little bags hold 100 bb's, putting one bag in each pouch on a bandolier would be quite usefull then, as I think their are 5 or 7 pouches per bandolier.

[Manius]

Thanks for the input Kren. The Fifth Season is by far a more Role Play orientated system than this one will be (good for some people, bad for others).

For those in the “know”, Grim Darkness will be Lorien Trust to Fifth Seasons Maelstrom…but without the in-fighting and back-biting or the “taking staff for granted” that the LT has (I hope).

Due to the nature of the background weekends will be far more combat based but with good areas for direct Role Play and intense encounters. Whilst the system will provide good basis for Role Play itself, I foresee that initially the main Role Play will be between players on the same side – the group organic.

For these reasons we’ll be issuing more ammunition. This, like Fifth Season, will be based on the character submissions when they’re booked (there will be no paying on the gate).

“Riflemen” – the basic guard player who has a lasgun only will be issued 500 rounds. This equates to Five VN Mid-caps with 75 rounds spare. So you see the issued amount has been very much geared up to the load-out the 9th have already agreed upon.

Special and heavy weapons troopers will get much more ammunition as befit’s their role. I will not disclose the figure here but it will be sufficient for perhaps one days use of a heavy weapon in medium combat…after that…

I am limiting ammunition without making its very restrictive but I we WILL be very strict on supply. If a player runs out in the first day and there is no other avenue of supply…the staff will not manipulate the plot of the weekend to satisfy the need for more ammunition. I can’t stress this enough – fight intelligently and sparingly.

The need to conserve ammunition will lead to greater Role Play avenues as stealth and often persuasion will be the best way to get through a situation rather than direct conflict. If you can negotiate your way into a target installation and kill the enemy, suddenly and up close you’ll use far less ammunition than taking a more direct route.

Commanders will have to think.

@ For Tanith – Let me know how much they want for Bandoliers. It will improve the general “feel” of issuing ammunition at the start of an event if we can do it fully in character by issuing players with a Bandolier. I know they are near disposable in the forces but because of this they tend to be disposed rather than re-circulated so are quite hard to get outside the forces.

They have 5 pockets so each will have 100 rounds in a re-sealable bag.

Damage replacement – Take care of your ammunition. Due to the nature of BB’s you can’t drop them on the ground and re-use them, so there will be a very limited supply of replacement bags for people who loose significant amounts during loading. I recommend the use of XL speed loaders and a funnel to help prevent spillage as after the players have departed the “ammo dump / deployment” area there will be NO re-supply except as plotted (which might be never!). It is up to the player to either load fully up at the ammo dump or in the field as required though.

If the bandoliers are cheap enough I can add in a minor uplift to ticket prices so players can keep them for future use – my last supply of them was free for example which will me no charge moving on to the players (remember we’re non-profit).

[cybersoldier]

Right, I think we should issue ammo as the scenario dictates. If we are about to go into a main action i.e. a pitched battle, we should have a full load of 6 STANAG MidCaps (3 in each ammo pouch) and 7 VN MidCaps (a full bandolier) and 1 full VN MidCap in the lasgun itself (this represents them being issued enough ammo to last until any they are relieved). If we are in base and get attacked we only have a loaded lasgun and a spare mag (this represents them always carrying their weapon and carrying a sneaky spare 'just in case'). If it is a recce mission we only carry a loaded lasgun and 1 full pouch (this represents them traveling light). I think this adds far more of an RP element to it and suits real world ideas of only giving soldiers what they are going to need. The idea of having a blanket issu of rounds doesn't really make sense. When it comes to Riflemen using non issue weapons then they would have to purchase the ammo seperately with their 'pay'. I'll work on the issue and elabouration of 'pay' with Manius to add an fun extra RP element to the system.

When it comes to scenarios about being cut off and heavily engaged then 'Grav Drops' can be called in.

[mihangelion]

i like that idea would serve quite well

[Manius]

@cyber - to be honest I’m generalising and using an example of a more regular, typical deployment – say a direct assault on a town or small city. Fighting will be hard but pretty short so 5 mags.

Bandolier and magazine availability will affect the ability of individuals to carry more ammo, so we’ll have to cover that as best as possible.

Interested in the concept of “pay” in some form, this could be built into the pre-booking pack. May be some form of hard currency or a virtual credit to account (data-chip). Money isn’t really mentioned in reference books to be honest, my assumption is that the Imperial Guard are not paid, full board is given so they (as far as the minstorium I concerned) don’t need money…perhaps a black market barter economy exists?

I think there may be reference to medals, campaign pins etc being put down for bets during gambling. We can’t really replicate that so we’ll have to go down the money route.

Bottom line for Ammunition now is that it WILL be issued by Event Control, on the day of the event. The number and type (i.e. weight) of rounds will be dependant on the weekend scenario(s) and Character Build.

If you are a sniper you will not get 600 rounds for example, likewise if you’re a heavy weapons trooper you won’t get 600 rounds either.

The thing I was trying to hint at is that whilst the Ministorium knows what the mission is your going on, you know the basic mission you’re going on…situations deteriorate. A quick assault can quickly become a dogged fight or a seemingly hard assault goes unopposed.

You’ll get ammo dependant on the Initial mission brief only.