Event One update.

[Manius]

Members of Grim Darkness forums,

At this moment it is with some certainty that I will be cancelling the event. Crux of the matter is that, as of this morning, I have only issued seven booking forms directly and taken no deposits.

This all adds up to a cancelled event, as I require £350 in available funds by the 1st of August to secure the site.

I would like to think that I have made a error in trying to secure a full Live Role Play event for us as a group when perhaps we just don’t have the number of role players on these forums to make it work, and on this I’d dearly like some feedback from the forum members urgently.

Am I aiming too high?

Are we able to field a team at a national airsoft event perhaps?

What options do we have to move the “system” forward (if indeed we want to move further on this)?

Manius

[slimshady]

I feel somewhat cheeky answering this post because after my initial interest I've come to the sad realisation that I simply don't have the cash to participate and until such time as I get a steady job won't have for the foreseeable future....that said....

For me its a matter of cash. I suspect that with other people there may be similar reasons and of course there's a small matter of numbers - it's something I've struggled with in the past when trying to organise a "fringe" airsoft/LARP event which despite individual enthusiasm simply ran into a financial brick wall when the question of numbers and costing arose.

The absolute kick in the teeth is that without events any LARP doesn't progress - rules don't get properly combat tested, scenarios may be written but never completed, the timeline stays stagnant despite contrivances to simulate a campaign or passing time...in short you need players and NPC's running a number of events per year to gather the impetus.

My only suggestion would be to waive the Imperial Guard angle (please feel free to throw rocks) and create a broader system (read: Rogue Trader style) which allows people more leeway with costuming/weapons to aleviate some of those concerns. I'm not talking about turning up in your atypical skirmish gear but modifying exisiting clothing/gear to a suitable design is always easier than buying new kit in my experience.

I know thats not a popular suggestion but personally I always found the setting and the atmosphere it conveys to be far more important than simply portraying a guardsman....and if a concession towards overall playability was made then perhaps IG events would become more of a reality later on.

Or it could be that I'm simply a bum with no cash and I'm trying to think of anything to circumvent that ;p

[Lt Gebra]

Well I for one wouldn't be able to make it - the financial situation being what it is I've played airsoft a grand total of twice in this year. I had hoped things would have picked up in time for me to have signed up for this but unfortunately not....

As for where to go from here, well I can't say I was ever the most enthusiastic for the LRP side, I'm definitely more of a member of the "I'll give it a shot" camp - I've LARPed in the past without really loving it too much...

Perhaps attempting to set up our own even without even having gotten the whole group together for a normal event before was a tad too ambitious, perhaps if so many player weren't in the poo financially (both among the group and in the wider community) they might find it easier to get enthusiastic about it - who knows?
Personally I reckon that attempting to get a team together for one or more of the big national events would be a good plan - as things are, our profile is rather low and to really have a shot at getting an event off the ground we could use a lot more visibility.
Another though would be to ease back on the LRP element and aim for a themed, scenario based game with a more-structured-than-usual ruleset to accommodate the setting. A number of Warhammer mad airsofters I know have told me that they'd be in but for the LRP element... When we're trying to cater for a niche within a niche, is it wise to further limit ourselves? Might it work better to get a player base into the scenario and then introduce the LRP element when they're already hooked?

[Gor/Strauss]

I would agree with the above about the LRP elements. I'm happy to give it a try but I know many who are not and all the usual gubbins.

However, for this event. I can proudly say that both myself and SGT Praal have paid, in full! I expect more of this from people who showed intrest! (leading by example and all that )

But if this doesn't kick off, following the Lt's advice, I think, would be the next most rational path.

[john]

The issue for me at the moment is also down to available cash, we are looking at possible redundancies at work and thats not a good situation to be in. As a way to get people together at another event to try and advertise the system, maybe taking a stall at the October Airsoft event as well as getting to the national events.

[slimshady]

Jul 20, 2009 11:27:15 GMT Gor/Strauss said:

I would agree with the above about the LRP elements. I'm happy to give it a try but I know many who are not and all the usual gubbins.

However, for this event. I can proudly say that both myself and SGT Praal have paid, in full! I expect more of this from people who showed intrest! (leading by example and all that )

Couple of points to raise here on a personal note - the LRP side is the thing that attracted me most of all (it is Grim Darkness Warhammer 40k LRP after all) and I think that with a supporting ruleset it would be a crying shame to throw it to one side - I can airsoft anytime I like but getting the chance to do Warhammer LARP is a far more fleeting opportunity...and mere "costumed airsoft" holds no interest for me at all.

Thats why I proposed opening the possible field to a non-guard game....at least then you could still attend in themed kit without having to feel you needed to get the "official" guard uniform which brings me onto your last point...

Interest isn't and shouldn't be measured by your financial standing - neither should your commitment or enthusiasm.

As a lot of people have pointed out thats the major point of contention in attending events - the sheer lack of funds. Surely its better to run an event with the spirit of GD in mind (Warhammer LRP) rather than rigidly saying you MUST play guard?

Surely getting an event off the ground with an enthusiastic crew/player base if of more importance than procrastinating on forums right?

[slimshady]

Jul 20, 2009 10:16:18 GMT Lt Gebra said:

When we're trying to cater for a niche within a niche, is it wise to further limit ourselves? Might it work better to get a player base into the scenario and then introduce the LRP element when they're already hooked?

Yes and No. A Niche within a niche is always a hard market to target but starting with Airsoft then moving to LRP might well alienate the player base you've built up, and vice versa just running airsoft events might alienate the hardcore LARPers.

Difficult to say either way without knowing what representation each group has as a percentage of the total player base IMO (fwiw ;p )

[Manius]

I will state now and loudly that…Real life comes first..

If you don’t have the money, you can’t attend any events. Simple as that really and currently in the world there are few people who have spare money for luxuries such as a weekend LRP event (where the ticket price, even for a catered event, isn’t the end of the expenditure).

I’m happy that people have considered the event and found they just can’t afford it. I for one have, this year, officially retired from Lorien Trust events due to the ultimate cost.

A more broadly themed 40k event is possible certainly. The existing rules can be used for this in the main, I need to add in some more character build guidelines in a similar way to the Imperial Guard and related that are there now. I can do this and re-schedule an event for early/middle of next year.

The reasoning behind the IG angle was access to Airsoft players who understand “hit rules” of some complexity, have access to airsoft weapons and equipment. The rules are aimed at more combat and less face-to-face roleplay as well, mainly due to my experience of other LRP systems where it was clear to me that 70% of the player base attends to fight-with-a-reason and 30% to roleplay-with-a-reason (over simplifying I know and exaggerating even but you get the idea).

However, I strongly agree that we need exposure nationally, and in numbers. Getting seen, as a unit of 6+ even, would be a huge boost not only to the whole concept of 40k LRP but to the Grim Darkness system as a whole.

Not only this but I feel that perhaps just managing to get numbers in a team format to a national airsoft event would be a milestone in itself. Yes, LRP would be lacking and as an avid LRP’er I’d hate that too but finding out who CAN make events of this style would be a good guide for future full LRP event I believe.

I could put a post up simply asking people to vote: LRP or Airsoft as their personal preference but I sometimes feel such things look like I’m asking the obvious or speaking down to members…which I don’t want to do.

The option with least “pain” would be a national airsoft event of some sort. Something with a broad enough theme to allow those with IG kit to wear and use it but also allow those without to use what they have. Trouble is that most airsoft weekenders have ticket prices MORE expensive even that the £55 for the GD Event!! However, some don’t and rest assured if I choose to seek this option out it will be for an event that will be both worthwhile, well run and of reasonable cost. My first thoughts go to our friends at Gunman for example, who run Sci-Fi based “film-sim” events so I will be contacting them directly to find out if they have any plans in the next 6-8 months that might sit well with us as a community…some openings for roleplay and some openings for those of us who aren’t so interested in that side.

Watch the forums for that section….

So, where does that leave this now? Currently those bookings I have received WILL be held until the deadline for pre-booking. Should we have sufficient funds AND numbers to run an event from these bookings…and event WILL be held. Either a full event at Candleston as advertised or a scaled down event at Tudders (which has been offered to me) at a future date.

Any excess monies WILL be refunded in full should a reduced ticket price be issued.

ALL monies WILL be refunded in full should there be either (or both) insufficient funds or players to hold a dedicated event.

Once the cut-off date has been breached, I will review the situation and address the community again with another plan.

Long post, sorry…

[mihangelion]

i believe that a good starting point would be some squads at an event organised by someone else as this will allow us to gether members, equipment and generally meet everyone.

i know that many people are in financial difficulty with jobs not being consistent (i know that i am one of those people at least). what is even worse is I have just finished Univeristy with a degree I can do nothing with until i gain experience with a company so its a downward spiral really.

To help my situation I have considered many things including my own Combat Games company (paintball, laser quest etc) but i doubt that will be viable in this climate.

the only thing we can possibly do as far as our own events go is to get out there as a team and attend other events, getting our name out. the more people we have in the community, the better the result of players (obvious i know but its silly how many times its forgotten)


I am all for producing anything that will help the community, hell im even scripting a short film/teaser for the board as an advert (this will also help my own work and i hope to get support and help from the community) hell if i had my way i would fly Watts and his group over here for filming =p

just my thoughts.....

[Cadet Commissar]

I Think that the system core rules are pretty much spot on, with only a litle tweeking here and there needed. ATM we basically have a 24hr time in Airsoft MilSim, (where one hit is one point of damadge anyway) with melee combat. Now I know that most MilSim players are welcome to the ocasional knife kill, so LRP Mellee rules arnt really that far a step.

As for the LRP players coming to airsoft, I know several LRPers that would rather stay away from "Bang" systems(Such as stargate or serenity) were any fire arms damage is called.

Nexus managed to get a reasonable attendance, so what does the system need to do to get to an attendance of similar size?

What about advertising more in the LRP community, There is nothing on the Rule7 LRP forum like there is in arnies or ASCUK, and there is a LRP fair coming up that we could have a small stall on(I can get the organisers contact details from the guys at stargate lrp) .

And dont lets forget the reason we are all here in the first place, Games Workshop, there are a milion WH40K Fan Forums and independant shops, just a flyer on the counter in the shop next to the till might get a load of interest from people that hadent thought of either Airsoft or LRP.

A group attendance at a national airsoft event with magazine coverage would get more interest from that arena.

Down to money, Well ATM, people have less cash, and just as many commitments to spend it on, so they have to ask themselfs "Do I realy need to have it?" And if the answer is no then fair point. I know at the moment I cant book till the 10th as thats when I get paid after starting a new monthly paid job.

As for having the event later, wherever it is held, at this point looks un avoidable, but a damb shame.

[Lt Gebra]

Jul 20, 2009 16:41:03 GMT Cadet Commissar said:

What about advertising more in the LRP community, There is nothing on the Rule7 LRP forum like there is in arnies or ASCUK, and there is a LRP fair coming up that we could have a small stall on(I can get the organisers contact details from the guys at stargate lrp).

Now there's a damn good idea - I hadn't though to consider recruiting form the LRP'ers who haven't airsofted before...

[Cadet Commissar]

Sorry, Didnt realise it was that obviuse a mistake.

[slimshady]

Advertising with the LRP community is a good plan - there's enough forums around to ensure a pretty good coverage. Re: Nexus.....given there's bound to be some sharing of the player demograhpic (and having been in on the incept of the system) I'm 100% sure that having more freedom over character costume and design helped sway a percentage of the community on the grounds that they didn't have to invest in any further kit - they could (and did) run a lot of fairly atypical alternative/military gear and it fitted the theme of the event perfectly. .....hence my point about a more "open" system in order to gather more players.

I know that my local GW wanted nothing whatsoever to do with anything that wasn't an offical GW event but that stance may have changed so its definately worth hitting them with a couple of flyers as well.

[Cadet Commissar]

Agreed, Local GW stores are a no no. But local independent stockists, are more than likely to say yes.

[tenacioustom]

I and a friend do really want to go and although the event money is there, the one thing we need are to get our weapons to a larp-able extent, namely so far we have only completed IG one gun from 4,
Tom